Good? Bad? Ugly?
Are hotels justified in refusing Israelis? I have seen signs reading 'No Israelis' in Bangkok for instance.
Are groups of Americans traveling together worse?
I am not sure about the American's but the Israeli Traveler is usually a real mess...
If we look on their background we can see that the Israeli travelers have just finish their military service and they feel that they must break all lines and laws. They were hold in the army for three long years, and now they want to hung out and have fun in their particular way...
Well, it doesn't explain all the ruins they left behind them but it's something we should consider when we judge them.
~~Franson~~
I agree. many of the israelis I spoke to in india seemed from a distance to just be disrespectfull, and a bit of a problem, but once you really spend some time with them, you see that they have been lacking freedom in the military, and from strongly religious families, etc. I guess I can sort of identify with them in this way
I had several contact with them. They are usually better informed on most issue then other people but when you start talking about Palestine they immediately show their arrogance as they have the divine or historical right to go there in mass after almost a thousand years of absence and form their own state in a land already inhabitated by other people.
Sad situation because they only sink themselves deeper and deeper into their mad dogmas.
As far as travellers they are not liked by most hotel owners as they try all the time to lower the price.
Firstly, I understand that the question posed was an attempt to open an intelligent discussion on the ethics of travel, and not meant as any form of prejudice.
However, I feel very strongly that by grouping Israelis in such a way, you are treading a very fine line between generalisation and dangerous stereotyping.
Where ever you travel, you are sure to bump into an Israeli. Surely this is a testament to their desire to travel and explore the world, as opposed to an attempt to 'break all lines and laws'? Obviously, as with any nationality or group of people, there are people who behave in such a way that gives the group a bad name, or certain stigma. Aren't the British renowned for football hooliganism? Or flying to Thailand, partying their guts out and returning to claim that they 'travelled' in SE Asia? Are those people really representative of the British population?
Sure, Israelis tend to travel in groups. But consider this. Israel is an incredibly small country, very patriotic and with a very distinct culture. Most people have some connection with one another, be it through a friend of a friend, the army etc etc. It is only natural to spend time with friends, or people you have a lot in common with. Especially when you are in a foreign environment. And, as one person mentioned, almost all Israelis have just left the army and are keen to escape from the trauma and stress that they will have experienced.
Yes, Israelis tend to be opinionated. Yes, they also tend to be loud and make their presence known. So what? So are a lot of people. And most Israelis will be willing to discuss politics - for them, politics is not just something to be read about in a newspaper, but an inextricable part of daily life. Of course they'll have opinions. Wouldn't you, if your country was in constant conflict? A difference in political opinion is not a cause for negative stereotyping.
Every Israeli I have ever met on the road has shown a genuine interest in the country in which they are travelling, and a desire to learn more about the culture. This only highlights the (very long-winded) point that I am trying to make. In today's increasingly small world, it becomes more and more important to be aware of cultural differences and have travelled at least a little. If you consider the number of Israelis you will meet, especially in the most obscure destinations and compare this to the population figure of only 6million, I believe that Israelis set us all an outstanding example.
And with that, I shall leave my excessively long diatribe.
I was travelling in brasil a few years ago and met a couple of brasilians who had been given hebrew names by some israeli they'd met: they tod me proudly they were now called 'dafook' and 'benzona' - 'fucked' and 'son of a whore' in hebrew.
Just check out all the guesthouse around the world who put up "no Israeli" signs at the front. It's not for nothing.
The thing is, they travel in these huge groups and so don;t get to know the local culture as they spend all their time with each other. They treat the rest of the world like it exists just for them to have their rite of passage after the army, treating the locals like they treat the arabs back home. There are many exceptions but for most israelis travel is just a fashion now, not a journey of exploration.
Look Mole i didn't say that Israeli shouldn't talk about politic, i only said that their mind if full of dogma therefore i do not like them as they procastinate the wrongdoing.
One of the reason why they stick together may well be that they can not hide that sense of guiltiness within. This is my opinion but i may be wrong.
DOGMA OR NON TRUTH
1) GOD TOLD US THAT WE ARE THE CHOOSEN RACE. (DIVINE OR RELIGIOUS DOGMA AS WOULD BE WRONG FOR GOD TO CHOOSE ONE AT THE EXPENCE OF OTHER)
2) WE HAVE ALWAYS LIVED IN PALESTINE THEREFORE WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO ESTABLISH ISRAEL. (HISTORICAL DOGMA AS ABRAHAM CAME FROM MESOPOTAMIA AND MOST OF THE JEWS LEFT PALESTINE ABOUT 900 YEARS AGO)
I don't think the above is quite correct. The Jews were in Israel for a long time, over a thousand years all told before they were forcibly thrown out by the Romans.
There is something to be said about the Chosen Race though, it does seem to be asking for trouble to say they're chosen by god above all others.
What blows my mind is that some Israelis say they're the same people as 2000 years ago. They have every shade of skin colour and ethnic traits imaginable and they insist that there was no inter-marrying during the 2000 years away!
wakeupnowlittlesuzie Wrote:I don't think the above is quite correct. The Jews were in Israel for a long time, over a thousand years all told before they were forcibly thrown out by the Romans.
That would'nt make any difference. When you are gone you are gone especially after so many centuries. Immagine if i would pretend to go back in the land of my ancestors and declare my own state in a land already inhabitated by other people, the police would lock me up in a mental institution.
Quote:There is something to be said about the Chosen Race though, it does seem to be asking for trouble to say they're chosen by god above all others.
This particular state of mind is better known as DOGMA or non truth which turn normal people into fanatic believers.
Quote:What blows my mind is that some Israelis say they're the same people as 2000 years ago. They have every shade of skin colour and ethnic traits imaginable and they insist that there was no inter-marrying during the 2000 years away!
That is correct. You can see blond jews coming from eastern europe. That clearly means that there has been inter-marrying.
wakeupnowlittlesuzie Wrote:I don't think the above is quite correct. The Jews were in Israel for a long time, over a thousand years all told before they were forcibly thrown out by the Romans.
That would'nt make any difference. When you are gone you are gone especially after so many centuries. Immagine if i would pretend to go back in the land of my ancestors and declare my own state in a land already inhabitated by other people, the police would lock me up in a mental institution.
Quote:There is something to be said about the Chosen Race though, it does seem to be asking for trouble to say they're chosen by god above all others.
This particular state of mind is better known as DOGMA or non truth which turn normal people into fanatic believers.
Quote:What blows my mind is that some Israelis say they're the same people as 2000 years ago. They have every shade of skin colour and ethnic traits imaginable and they insist that there was no inter-marrying during the 2000 years away!
That is correct. You can see blond jews coming from eastern europe. That clearly means that there has been inter-marrying.